The following is based on a facebook debate where protagonists argue whether the State's reaction to a community demonstration in Jobstown, Tallaght on November 15, 2014, is a 'two tier corrupt application' of the law or whether it is due legal process.
There is no doubt that the State's reaction will incur massive costs. To date it has involved Dawn raids by Gardaí long after the initial incident, the arrests of and charge of 'false imprisonment' on 21 selected demonstrators including Paul Murphy, TD, the use of jury less courts, the conviction of a 15 year old in the Children's Court, Oct, 2016, splitting the case up into 'manageable lots', where the next batch will be tried on April 24, 2017, then the next on Oct 2, 2017 and the final lot on April 9, 2018, a span of some 3 years. It would be logical to think that such an intense, selective reaction was the result of high level decisions taken by Government and it's legal apparatus.
Incidentally at an initial court case earlier this year Judge Melanie Greally made an judgement, based on a 'placement of a comma', to split up the defendants into 'manageable lots'.
Mr Enda Craig (EC) argues that the reaction of the State is an 'example of a two tier corrupt application of the law whereas Mr Martin Lavelle (ML) takes the status quo line that it is due process. Mr Craig refers to an Irish Times article ' Farm protesters vent anger over Reps cuts as Minister visits cheese plant' July 17 2009.
Repenter by Benny Andrews
EC
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/farm-protesters-vent-anger-over-reps-cuts-as-minister-visits-cheese-plant-1.700984
“I’m disappointed with the lack of stewarding by the IFA officers as Minister Smith left the plant – we had agreed with them that it would be a peaceful protest, but they failed to honour that undertaking and several of my officers were assaulted as a result,” Supt MacEoin said, adding that no arrests were made........................Two senior Guards assaulted and knocked to the ground. Minister's car pummeled and kicked. Farmer lies on ground and prevents the Minister's car from moving. Broke all agreements with the Guards regarding the protest and would you believe it, after all that, nobody arrested - nobody charged. These facts speak for themselves.
EC
I believe that more notice should be given to the detail contained in the above article. It highlights, in stark terms, the two-tier corrupt application of the law in comparing the attitude of senior Gardai to farmer protests as against a working class protest in Tallaght
ML
It highlights that the IFA leaders made an agreement, which some of their members broke and their subsequent action to protect the Minister versus the situation in Tallaght where the leaders escalated the protests. A complete difference.
EC
I can only hope that you slip off the point of the needle that you are presently dancing on and that the subsequent jag gives you a serious injection of reality. I admire your tenacity but your reasoning is with the fairies - non-existent - in logic anyway.
ML
However, my reasoning complies with the law. Yours doesn't. We can wait to discuss when the Goat is in jail.
EC
I think i need to check your driving license - with special emphasis on the points section - or are you just an out and out ' born again ' apologist.
ML
You can check all you like. You won't find me on pulse. I believe in the Rule of Law. I always slow to 50 in a 50kph area.
EC
Two senior Guards assaulted and knocked to the ground. Minister's car pummeled and kicked. Farmer lies on ground and prevents the Minister's car from moving. Broke all agreements with the Guards regarding the protest".....and you consider this lawful.......'All looks yellow to the jaundiced eye' -- you are beyond retrieval - past the point of no return. You mightn't be on the Pulse list but there is a list out there that you should definitely be on -- men in white coats come to mind.
ML
The difference is that in one case, individuals broke the law against their leaders agreement and efforts versus the Tallaght situation where the leaders caused and encouraged the breaking of the law. One involves individuals, the other is organized crime.
EC
Who exactly do you consider to have been the " Leaders " in the Tallaght protest. Your presumptions are yet another example of your distasteful haste to label 'innocent until guilty ' individuals before they are accorded due process. It is not for you to become Judge and Jury as it conflicts mightily with your ' dubious ' claim to be an advocate of the Rule of Law. In my opinion, for you, it is a very movable feast.
ML
Why were you supporting the youth last week against the Courts and the law. A week is a long time in your interpretation of our legal system.
EC
HINEYBIRD! You know what a hineybird is, don't you ? A hineybird is a bird that flies in circles, increasingly smaller concentric circles, until it disappears into its own behind.................. You have finally arrived.
EC
You continually and forcefully support and defend a system that is corrupted beyond redemption. It was assembled and applied in the first instance by our Colonial Masters and then added to, fine tuned and continued to be applied, to this day
ML
The fundamental principles of democracy involved laws, courts and police to protect the public and uphold the law. All left wing states have failed. Their revolutions were short-lived. People came back to realise that democracy was the best option for society. Maybe you are 200 years behind the rest of us.
EC
They have cynically manipulated, twisted and turned the complete ethos ( word meaning "character" that is used to describe the guiding beliefs or ideals that characterise a community, nation, or ideology ) of Democracy ( the belief in freedom and equality between people ) into a self-serving pretense. We live in a make-believe, assembled and structured for the 'Elites ' only, type of Democracy. We have treated the principles of Democracy in the same way we have and are treating European legislation. The authorities connive and dissipate ten times more energy and resources into trying to ' work round ' European Law than if they would do it properly as required the first time. The guiding principles have been " interfered with " in the worst possible way and only those who benefit from this contorted pretense have the neck to defend it regardless of the truth staring them in the face.
MC
Comrades, time for all of you to go. Bye bye. You do not have 80% support. More Likely 2-3%. Try taking some reality tablets.
EC
"They have purchased half of us and intimidated the other half.".....................So said Pearse at the grave of O'Donovan Rossa 100 years ago in reference to the policies and behaviour of the Colonial powers ruling Ireland at that time. Mostly all we did was change the flag.
ML
Pearse or Pierce was a Cromwellian import. Don't quote him.
EC
At least he was honest and had the courage to do something ( as he thought ) about it. .........'Plus ca change, plus cest la meme chose'......... very, very appropriate.
ML
I heard that they are going to do a few more Father Ted shows. They are looking for comedy writers. You all could qualify. In my youth I often heard that the symptoms that you exhibit were down to bullocks notions. Good luck with the medication and the fiction.
EC
Your ' little ' world has revolved around a slide-rule and theodolite where every calculation is either black or white - right or wrong. You know and care nothing about the world, the people and the struggles that lie in between. You mock from your well heeled, well insulated, well remunerated position of the professional classes and it's indeed a sad reflection on your outlook as regards your fellow man. The system in this country is in need of a serious overhaul but you have landed on the right side of the line and as you see it, that will do. It is plain you have spent your time in a cossetted, safe, easy, call a consultant little world and viewed everything through the prism of your rose-tinted specs. You have retired to ' Fr. Jack ' country so sit back and every now and again spout your nonsense from your half-lit slumbers.
Source: Facebook, Oct 2016 - you probably need to have signed up to read full thread.
