Fine Gael's Martin Haydon throwing shapes on water charges on today's RTÉ Morning Ireland

Martin Haydon spokesperson for Fine Gael's Oireachtas Water Charges Committee delegation.

If, like us,  you are confused about what is happening in the private sessions of the Oireachtas Water Charges Committee, we think that after listening to Martin Haydon on today's RTÉ Morning Ireland, you will not be any further forward.

You have to be on your toes here to catch this Fine Gael sales pitch.  Sounds like Mr Haydon may have drank too much morning coffee before the show or maybe the tongue twisting speed , like a typical auctioneer's cant,  is deliberately confusing. 

 

Well are you any the wiser?  No, more confused probably.  Anyway we will have to wait until tomorrow April 6th apparently, to hear how the Committee votes on each point of today's draft report.

One thing that came across from Mr Haydon's interview is that Fine Gael want Irish Water to send out bills charging people if they they go over their allowance by, we are assuming 1.7 times the allowance.  Some say this allowance will be 133 litres per person per day but others say 123 litres.  We calculate 133 X 1.7 = 226 litres per day.  Are you still confused?

Mr Haydon's arguments is pretty flaky about how Fine Gael proposes to measure excessive use.  Indeed he seems confused too about what is excessive use and how a company can bill excessive use if there is no meter.  Maybe the company could pick a number out of the sky,  double it, multiply by ten, then subtract the first number to get an average figure.  And last but not least what happens if you don’t pay?  Oh that's right,  Fine Gael does not want to take people to court.

Meanwhile off set we have Labour and Greens siding with Fine Gael.  Jan O’Sullivan is worrying about what others think especially the clever people in Brussels.   The Greens are worrying about the environment but then again not so worried about the damage caused by millions of 'Smart' meters.  Then we have Sinn Féin, Solidarity/PeopleBeforeProfit and Right2Water claiming a premature victory, possibly a pyrrhic one, and organising a final demonstration this Saturday at 1pm in Dublin to be on the safe side. 

And finally Barry Cowen, Fianna Fáil spokesman,  today sided with the Anti Water Charges Campaigners.   He said that he understands that the Irish people do not want a General Election (not sure about that Barry).  He accused Fine Gael of proposing 'bills by the back door' and assured us that you can trust the Fianna Fáil party to stick to their manifesto promises. 

Well, Barry,  we will give you the benefit of doubt there but we think it prudent to wait until tomorrow and even until the day when eventually the report reaches the Dáil.

Source: RTÉ Morning Ireland, April 5 2017


Solidarity/People Before Profit's press release today on latest developments in the Oireachtas Water Committee

Paul Murphy spokesperson for Solidarity/People Before Profit at their press release on today's Oireachtas Water Committee.

Solidarity and People Before Profit spokesman Paul Murphy today at a press release outside Leinster House on today's proceedings at the Oireachtas Committee on Funding Water.  

Mr Murphy called today's events a 'victory' for the Anti Water Charge Campaign but later admits that 'it's not over yet'.  This is emphasised again later when he says that the Committee will have to vote on each item tomorrow.  However he says he is confident.  

There is also a sliver of doubt in his comments about whether Fianna Fáil will stay the course.  

There are also a number of niggling questions that we still have that were not brought up e.g what is the water allowance of 133 litres per day for, how is this assessed and how will the excess be managed?  Hopefully these questions will be clarified tomorrow.

Source: https://www.facebook.com/peopleb4profit/videos/1281998248558366/


Parties defy Fine Gael over water charges

by Niamh Lyons, The Times, April 5 2017

The government had attempted to introduce charges for excessive usage

The fate of water charges hangs in the balance after a day of chaos in Leinster House and a series of squabbles among Dáil parties.

Fine Gael abandoned a meeting of the joint Oireachtas committee on the future of water charges after losing a series of votes.

The key amendment lost by the party was its addition of the word “normal” in relation to domestic water usage being charged through general taxation in the future.

The defeat of this amendment means the taxpayer faces picking up the tab for all water usage, including water wasted by householders, if the draft agreement is endorsed in the Dáil

In total, 13 of the 20-member committee voted against Fine Gael’s attempt to implement an excessive usage charge. A further showdown is expected today as the committee reconvenes.

Fine Gael blamed Fianna Fáil for changing its position, having agreed in principle last week that an excess charge would be included. Sinn Féin accused Fine Gael of attempting to bring in water charges “by the back door”. The Labour Party then said it may not support the final report.

Martin Heydon, Fine Gael’s chairman and a member of the water committee, said the country would face fines of “hundreds of millions” of euro unless people were charged for unnecessary waste.

“Fine Gael wants to agree a report that resolves the problem of how we fund domestic water services in Ireland and is honest with the Irish people,” he said.

“We want a report that is a true reflection of the progress that was made by the committee last week.”

The committee had already agreed in principle that domestic water be paid through general taxation and that the Commissioner for Energy Regulation would be charged with coming up with an allowance for individuals that was 1.7 times over the general usage of 123 litres per day.

Simon Coveney, the housing minister, has insisted that unless people were charged for their usage above that level, the state would be in contravention of the EU water framework directive and fines would be imposed.

Mr Heydon said the committee’s stand-off now centred on this issue and that if put to a vote in the Dáil the party could not support it or legislate to implement its findings.

“We won’t be supporting anything that is not legally compliant.

“Irish taxpayers cannot be unnecessarily levied with a fine from the European Union. That fine could amount to hundreds of millions of euro; we have no intention of walking ourselves into that scenario. It is not possible for this government to legislate for an illegal act. We are working towards resolution. We want to go back to the position we were at last week and hope we can resolve the matter.”

The government’s survival relies on the confidence and supply agreement with Fianna Fáil which states that legislation must be passed once the committee’s report is sent through the Dáil.

Another sticking point for Fine Gael revolves around the penalties that would be imposed for wasting water, which it claims could lead to householders being dragged through the courts.

“We don’t want to criminalise people for excessive use of water. We want people who use more water than the allowance to make a contribution. Language is important here, if we are going to have a charge for excessive usage that has to be in the report,” Mr Heydon said.

Barry Cowen, Fianna Fáil’s water spokesman and committee member, said his party was not in favour of charging per litre of water used above the capped allowance.

“We believe there should be a fine or levy for those wasting water, the detail of what that is should be agreed in future legislation.

“This is a bad day for Fine Gael. I expect and hope that it reflects on its position and comes back into the committee and moves onto the next section of the report with a view to reaching agreement,” he said.

The committee is running out of time before the March 13 deadline for its report to go through the Dáil. It was initially seeking to have the full report agreed by today.

Eoin Ó Broin, Sinn Féin’s water spokesman, said he expected Fine Gael to attempt to take yesterday’s key vote again but said that his party would resist.

“The report as it currently stands calls for domestic water services to be funded through existing general taxation and all talk of a separate charge for excessive use, normal and abnormal use, or the state being a customer of Irish Water, has been defeated.

“We’ll go back into committee today, we’ll look at meters, we’ll look at the issue of wilful wastage and we’re hopeful that the report can be concluded this week.”

Paul Murphy, a Solidarity TD, said yesterday’s meeting represented good progress from the point of view of the anti-water charges movement.

“A series of amendments were won in contested votes which saw Fine Gael TDs in a minority.

“Judging from the attitude of the Fine Gael TDs, they will be disappointed about the direction the report is currently headed. The question should now be put to Simon Coveney as to whether he will accept the outcome of the report and bring forward legislation to implement it if Fine Gael don’t get what they want,” Mr Murphy said.

A spokesman for Mr Coveney did not respond to this question last night.

Source: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/parties-defy-fine-gael-over-water-charges-l5xh6hghg?CMP=TNLEmail_118918_1617382