Over 70,000 households could face water fines

Homes using 70% more than normal limit could be penalised under committee plans

Committee members say a number of processes would have to be completed before a system of fines commence.

Sarah Bardon

More than 70,000 households could face prosecution and fines for wasteful use of water, the Oireachtas committee on water charges has proposed.

The 20-member committee has agreed a draft report on the future of the levies, which envisages the Commission for Energy Regulation (CER) setting a figure for normal usage of water.

Households using 70 per cent more than that limit could face financial penalties, the rate of which will be decided by the regulator. It is understood the CER will set the average allowance of 127 cubic meters meaning the figure for wilful waste will be 215.9 – 1.7 times normal usage.

However, committee members insisted a number of processes would have to be completed before a system of fines commences.

The committee was told 71,000 of the State’s 2.2 million households (8 per cent) account for 32 per cent of the State’s water use and these properties could be liable for the excessive use charges.

Irish Water will notify individual householders by post if it suspects there is a wilful wasting of water. An examination will then be carried out to assess if there is a reason for the above average usage such as a leak.

If a medical condition is the reason for excessive use, the State will be asked to introduce a scheme of waivers and if it is a leak, financial assistance would be offered to homeowners. If neither apply, a householder will be given six months to reduce their water consumption or face prosecution.

Sinn Féin TD Eoin O’Broin said the number of people who this will apply to is minimal and will produce little revenue for the State.

“The majority of these would be exempt from any penalty either due to exemptions or leak detecting and remedy,” he said. “In all likelihood penalties would only apply to a tiny number of households who continue to allow large volumes of water to be wasted even when it is brought to their attention.”

Fair system

The Oireachtas committee’s decision is a row back for Fine Gael, which had argued against prosecutions and for an excessive charge.

A party spokesman said Fine Gael’s aim was to ensure a fair charging system was in place and he said that would be achieved by fining those responsible for excessive water usage.

Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil members brought the findings of the report to their parliamentary party meetings yesterday. A final report will be prepared for committee members on Monday and discussions on it will take place on Tuesday.

The final report will include measures to refund householders who paid their water charges but said the decision on repayment must be made by the Government.

Normal usage will be funded through general taxation but the tax must be identifiable to ensure Ireland meets the obligations of European law.

On the area of metering, the State will no longer sponsor a metering programme. The committee agreed to district metering being used to determine excessive usage. It says individual householders could voluntarily take up a domestic water meter and the committee recommends the Government examine how best to incentivise this while bulk metering would be used for multi-unit developments such as apartment blocks.

The committee also recommends a referendum be held to enshrine Irish Water in public ownership.

The members said those on group water schemes should have the same financial support offered to those on public water scheme.

The final report will be sent to the Dáil for April 14th for a vote. It does not include a figure for how much the proposals will cost the State.

Source: Irish Times Mar 30, 2017


Buncrana Together

The back room boys

The first thing that must be said is that the Oireachtas Water Committee process is not fully public.  It never hasbeen and these most recent Committee meetings are all being conducted in private.  We are only getting fed bits and pieces through leaks to the press.  

We also assume that a lot of negotiations are taking place behind the scenes especially between Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael but with what looks like quite a bit of manipulation from the EU Commissioner. 

Fianna Fáil seem reluctant, for some reason,  to bring down this minority, Fine Gael lead, Government, despite numerous reasons why they should not be propping it upNot least because of the water catastrophe but also because of other monumental political scandals such as An Garda Síochána, Nama, Housing, Tuam Babies, Tusla and many many more. 

This Fianna Fáil political manoeuvre of bidding their time is now allowing Fine Gael have undue influence on the Water Charge's debate especially since they are in Government and are availing of all relevant state apparatus.   Somehow this does not seem right. 

Fine Gael was the Government responsible for bringing in the controversial Water Charges, installing a multi million Euro Irish Water company, spending a fortune installing unwanted smart meters with questionable heath effects, arresting and prosecuting protesters, using heavy handed and coercive methods.  Now in it's dying throes it is being allowed to have a major say.

The Fine Gael position in Government is getting more and more precarious by the day.  In fact if it had any integrity it should have resigned ages ago.  Instead it using everything under the sun to remain in Government for selfish gain.    It's unpopularity is no doubt due, primarily, to the water issue but we can also say that it is due to what the public sees as it's failure on fulfilling election promises.

Fianna Fáil should take note because we do remember your ' Four Core Priorities' especially priority no 2 'Cut Costs for Families'  where it states that you will"abolish Irish Water and Water Charges".


Oireachtas committee split on prosecutions for wasting water

Amended Act should allow for legal action against householders, says draft report

Sarah Bardon

Monitoring excessive usage? A water meter in Dublin. Photograph: Cyril Byrne

The Oireachtas committee on water charges is divided on plans to prosecute householders who waste water. The draft report for committee members proposes that existing legislation should be amended to allow for homeowners to be taken to court and sanctions to be imposed thereafter.

Fianna Fáil and Solidarity are supporting the proposal, but it is being resisted strongly by Fine Gael, Labour and Sinn Féin.

Fine Gael Senator Paudie Coffey said his party would not support any measure which allowed for householders to be pursued through the courts.

“Fine Gael believes in responsible usage of water, but dragging people through the courts is unacceptable,” Mr Coffey said. “We have moved considerably from our party position on water charges, but we do not believe in the prosecution of people.”

Excessive usage has been a source of dispute between Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael at the committee.

The legal opinion provided to the members by senior counsel David Nolan will now provide the basis for negotiations between the two parties. It says the 2007 Water Services Act can be amended to meet obligations arising from the European Union Water Framework Directive. The directive insists on a system being in place to allow for the recovery of costs for the provision of water services. Breaches of the directive can result in member states being fined.

Fianna Fáil believes the Act should contain measures to fine householders, while Fine Gael believes a bill should be issued to those who are found to be wasting water.

Normal usage of water

The committee members also failed to reach agreement at the meeting on how normal usage of water can be determined.

The report suggests that the Commission for Energy Regulation would decide the limit. However, Fianna Fáil is resisting such power being delegated to the body, insisting that the committee itself should determine the figure.

Solidarity TD Paul Murphy said he would not support the introduction of any figure in legislation, claiming that this would provide for the reintroduction of water charges.

The committee will meet again today to discuss metering and possible refunds for those who have paid their charges.

The draft report says that district metering should be used to monitor excessive usage and that modern technology, such as satellite imaging, should be utilised to target individual households.

The committee proposes that those who voluntary install a domestic water meter should be incentivised through, for example, a tax credit. For those in apartment blocks, the committee proposes bulk metering and an allowance per home .

Members will also have to consider a recommendation for all new dwellings to have water meters installed.

On the issue of refunds, the committee proposes that those who have paid their charges should be compensated. However, it says this can only be done following consideration of the fiscal implications .

The committee did agree yesterday to the principle that domestic water usage be funded through taxation. In order to comply with EU law, it says the taxation must be identifiable and must meet the cost of water services.

The committee is due to complete its work today and its final report will be sent to the Dáil on April 14th.

Source: Irish Times, Mar 29, 2017


Buncrana Together

Fine Gael are reluctant to take householders to court, now, that is just not a believable argument.  Their real motive, as has always been the case, is to get meters installed by hook or by crook.  They are using the 'excessive use' argument to get a foot in the door and once meters are accepted we are then on the slippery slope to itemised billing.   What a waste of money and resources it is to meter every household when it is supposedly only for excessive use, especially since it is accepted that Irish householders are not excessive users of water.

We agree with Paul Murphy when he said he would not support the introduction of any figure in legislation, claiming that this would provide for the reintroduction of water charges.

Lastly we notice the article mentions Sinn Féin siding with Fine Gael and Labour.
"Fianna Fáil and Solidarity are supporting the proposal, but it is being resisted strongly by Fine Gael, Labour and Sinn Féin"

How can this be so and can Sinn Féin explain their stance, if it is true?


FG-FF clash likely on legality of fines for wasting water

EU commissioner says it is ‘questionable’ if fines would meet water directive

Fianna Fáil believes amending the 2007 Water Services Act, which allows fines for wasting water, could be used to prevent wastage

Michael O'Regan

Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil are likely to differ sharply on Tuesday when an Oireachtas committee considers the legality under EU law of imposing fines for wasting water.

This follows a comment by Commissioner for the Environment Karmenu Vella that it would be “questionable’’ whether this met the EU water framework directive.

A source close to the committee, set up to examine the future of the charges, said the commissioner’s view would add to its difficulties in reaching a consensus. “Reaching some kind of coherent agreement is going to be very difficult,’’ the source added.

Fianna Fáil is opposed to charges, and believes amending the 2007 Water Services Act, which allows fines for wasting water, could be used to prevent wastage.

Minister for Housing Simon Coveney has insisted he will not introduce any legislation that defies the advice of the Attorney General, the European Commission and that of his own department.

The issue has caused considerable tension between the minority Government and Fianna Fáil, which has said it is an issue which could bring down the Government.

Impose fines

The 20-member committee, under the chairmanship of Independent Senator Pádraig Ó Céidigh, was scheduled to report to the Dáil on February 28th. However, it failed to reach agreement, and its report is now due by April 14th.

The commissioner’s view was expressed in a letter to Fine Gael Dublin MEP Brian Hayes. Mr Hayes said he had asked the commissioner whether Fianna Fáil’s proposal to the committee to impose fines for “wilful abuse of water’’ was in compliance with the directive.

He said the commissioner had raised serious doubts, and had noted a previous Fianna Fáil government had given a clear commitment to introduce charges to comply with the directive.

“One thing we do get definitive confirmation on is that we cannot revert to our previous practice of paying for water through general taxation,’’ Mr Hayes added. “This would clearly constitute a breach of the water framework directive for which we would be liable for massive fines.’’

Dismissing the commissioner’s view, Solidarity TD Paul Murphy, a member of the committee, said it fell into the category of “well, they would say that, wouldn’t they?’’

He said the “neo-liberal commission’’ had been a driving force for water charges and privatisation across Europe.

Source: Irish Times, Mar 26, 2017


Buncrana Together

To us this article can only be described as a timely intervention by Mr Brian Hayes, Fine Gael MEP and the Commissioner for the Environment Karmenu Vella.  Are they trying to pre-empt Fianna Fáil's legal presentation to the Oireachtas Water Charges Committee on Tuesday, Mar 28?  How can anyone prejudge what has not even been presented yet?  If that is the case then what is Mr Hayes' and the Commissioner's intention?

Fine Gael and the EU Commission have used this strong armed tactics many times before, such as massive fines.  Again we would like to remind them that if they think that any decision of the Dáil is wrong then let them take it to theCourt of Justice of the European Union (CJEU).  Until such time any threat or opinions are only that.